Beyond Sunday with Pastor Nic
Join me for a more personal look into the weekend sermons, as well as some thoughts on theology, marriage, parenting, and leadership. I will also explore some of your most asked questions throughout the year.
www.nic-williams.com
Beyond Sunday with Pastor Nic
11 Kids and Counting: A Conversation on Faith and Family with Pastor Scott LaPierre
Pastor Scott LaPierre shares his powerful journey from elementary school teacher to pastor, author, and father of eleven children, highlighting how personal tragedy led him to discover the transformative power of God's Word.
• Scott's testimony of coming to faith after his brother's death from drug overdose
• The challenge of balancing church leadership with family life of eleven children
• How Scott transforms sermon manuscripts into books that equip believers
• The crisis in male spiritual leadership both in churches and homes
• Why many men hesitate to lead spiritually and how wives can encourage them
• The connection between our relationship with Christ and marriage health
• Simple spiritual disciplines that can transform struggling marriages
• Scott's experience with publishers and realistic expectations for Christian authors
Visit scottlapierre.org to download Scott's free resource "Seven Biblical Insights for Marriage" and learn more about his books and ministry.
Hey podcast world, welcome back to another episode of Beyond Sunday. We have a special guest here today, kind of doing an interview series over the summer and got connected with a guy named Scott LaPierre. Got connected with him about a few weeks ago and just wanted to kind of come in and talk with him a little bit. He's an author, he's a pastor and he's a coach and does a lot of things in life. You're going to love his story today. Scott, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thanks a lot, Nick. Glad to be here with you and your audience.
Speaker 1:So, just so my audience can know who you are, let's kind of start with your story. Let's start with your story of faith. How did you come to faith in Christ being a pastor now? That had to have started a while ago.
Speaker 2:Yeah, always glad to share my testimony, nick. So I'll make it concise but I can elaborate on any part. So I wasn't raised in a Christian home. We were Catholic growing up and I never heard the gospel.
Speaker 2:And then in my early 20s, well, my brother and I was just my brother and I growing up together and we were 14 months apart in age. He was 14 months younger than me and I don't know if you're familiar with grunge or remember like Nirvana when all that came out. But my brother got pretty serious into that and kind of took a different direction. We'd always both been really into athletics and academics. And then he kind of got into grunge and it's like you know things plummeted his academics and so then he got into drugs and in my early 20s he ended up dying of a drug overdose and that was a real tragic, shocking event because he didn't look like you're drugging on the street, he'd actually enlisted and so it looked like his life was dramatically improving. And that was one thing we had together in common because we didn't have any military, any veterans in our family, and so when we both had the military in common our relationship kind of improved. But when he was in the military. He joined the 82nd Airborne and was jumping out of planes and got lots of pills and he already had been taking pills, I believe. So he got a pretty severe pill addiction and then overdosed, and so my dad called me and shared that news with me and I knew something was up, because my dad is a quieter man who doesn't call me it's usually my mom and so I was an elementary school teacher at that time.
Speaker 2:I'd gotten out of the military and I was teaching with a handful of Christians that were going to Calvary Chapel, and one of my fellow teachers her father was the pastor of this church and they knew I was struggling and they're like, hey, why don't you come to our church, talk to our pastor? He lost his brother when he was about your age, and so you know, nick, I went to this church. I didn't go to be saved or born again, because those were not terms in the Catholic church, and I pretty much already thought I'm going to heaven. You know, according to Catholicism, good people go to heaven, bad people go to hell. And I'm a good person and pretty much like everyone thinks, and so I go to this Calvary Chapel just to talk to the pastor and I walk in.
Speaker 2:I didn't bring a Bible because I'd never brought one to the Catholic church and they handed me one. It was a little precious moments Bible. So I kind of got a kick out of the sense of humor they had and the pastor read a verse, explained it. Read a verse, explained it, and it was just a life-changing moment for me because I could understand God's word. I believe that he was speaking to me through it and if you're familiar with Catholicism, people don't read the Bible. It's kind of viewed as this very taboo cryptic book that nobody can understand. And if you want to understand anything, talk to a priest or listen to what the Pope declares for the church, the Catholic church, and so I'm just sitting there and it's incredible that I can understand the Bible and I never even got to talk to the pastor that first Sunday and I was already looking forward to returning the following Sunday.
Speaker 2:I heard the gospel soon after that and it bore witness. It contradicted the works-based gospel and I'm using that loosely or salvation way to have salvation in the Catholic Church that we're sinners, we're justified or declared righteous by grace through faith in Christ. And so I gave my life to Christ and then something I didn't expect happened my passion for teaching and coaching because I really loved being an elementary school teacher and coach, I'd be in my classroom on the weekends and after school and I just found it really, really decreasing. And I found my passion for ministry increasing and I was getting opportunities to teach in the church you know midweek studies or home fellowships and people started kind of talking to me like, hey, have you ever thought of becoming a pastor?
Speaker 2:And so then there were the church that had a part-time youth pastor position locally and they were having trouble filling it because nobody wants to fly across the country to take a part-time job. So I interviewed, they hired me and then so I was a part-time youth pastor, which worked really well with my elementary school schedule, having summers and weekends off with my students. And then the church grew and they hired me full time, kind of as an associate pastor. I did that and then I stepped away from school teaching and did that a couple of years. But honestly, nick, I'm not really a youth pastor. You know, I guess I don't have that cool fun gene.
Speaker 2:You know that youth pastors have to have and stay up all night eating worms and playing video games, and so I wanted to preach the word to adults, and I'm definitely not. That's not a commentary on my view of youth pastors. I have a lot of respect for them. I just wasn't good at it, and so my pastor mentored me to be a teaching or senior pastor, and then we came to Woodland in 2010. And so almost 15 years ago, and been here since then.
Speaker 2:So, and my wife Katie and I, we grew up together in Northern California, and she's expecting our 11th child, and that you know, people are always like I can't believe you have 11 kids and I'm like I can't believe I have 11 kids. You know, that makes two of us, and so we just got married and some people say, oh well, you must've wanted to have a lot of kids. I don't really say it like that. I say that we just wanted God to be in charge of that area and again, that's not to say what other people have to do, but we just had that conviction and could have been five kids, or two or 12. Seems like it's going to be 11. So that's a big part of our lives too is just our family.
Speaker 1:All right. So let's pause there for a moment, because everybody just heard you have 11 kids and there are a million questions in their head. So let's talk about range of age How's the oldest? And then you've got one coming when.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're all about 18 months apart. It kind of seems like God lets the land lay fallow about nine months and then we end up getting pregnant again.
Speaker 2:And we thought my wife's 43, nick, and so we've kind of thought we were done the last few kids. And I mean it's sad. We know some people in the church that are in their mid-30s and they're trying to have children, you know, or some people younger than that who can't have children at all, and so God keeps giving us children and it's not an easy thing no-transcript, much less 11 of them in total.
Speaker 1:So God bless you. So let's talk about that a little bit. When my wife and I have been married 18 years, we have a 14-year-old 13-year-old, I was telling you earlier, my daughter just graduated middle school. So we're going into this new high school season and my boy plays travel, sports, baseball and that into church life and life gets busy very quickly. And then add a dozen kids in there. How do you and your wife manage the balance of home and the calling you have for the gospel, because the church never really stops right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well said, brother. And the difficult or the reason, the main reason, as you know, that many pastors sacrifice their marriages or their families kind of on the altar of ministry is you're doing a good thing, you know you're not visiting a bar, you're studying God's word or you're meeting with someone, and so it's hard to say no to things, because when you say no in ministry you're saying no to good things. And so not that I've always done it perfectly, nick, but it's an issue of priorities and I try to listen to my family and let them share their thoughts with me. My wife just told me this morning, talking to me about my schedule and business this week, and so the reality is to say yes to my family at times means saying no to people, but there's other individuals at our church, there's other elders and there's other people who can do things. The whole load doesn't have to be on my shoulders, and so I can if I'm really. The church should want me to have a healthy, strong marriage and a healthy, strong family, and so I've never been criticized for that.
Speaker 2:I've left events early to go and put my kids to bed, because that's what my wife wants, and so it really just means trying to prioritize, and so you know I do some authoring and I could have a lot more books if I didn't prioritize my marriage but or my kids, you know.
Speaker 2:And so I do some speaking and so I often try to take kids with me on trips, to give them special trips. We have to be very intentional to spend time with them and we try to monthly. We have a schedule where we try to monthly take each child out and my boys I have teenage boys and we know the struggle for teenage boys purity, and so I told the church I'm like, hey, I want to start a Saturday morning men's young men's group not men's group, young men's group going through JC Ryle's book Thoughts for Young Men, and I had a lot of reason to want to do that. I got teenage boys that I wanted to attend that study and I've told the church bring your young men to that too. So I definitely try to focus on ministry that allows me to both minister to the church and my family like that group.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's interesting. I find the same thing. Saying no to somebody in the church is hard because you're saying no to a good thing and you're saying no to a person right, a person that needs help or wants their pastor involved. But if you say yes to them, you're also saying no to home life. And my church is very similar. We have a great elder board, great staff, and everybody wants us to have a healthy marriage. I find I'm the worst enemy in that I'm the one that's the struggle. It's not my staff, it's not my elders, I'm the one that struggles saying no. So, trying to always find that balance, if you will. Now, you mentioned a moment ago that you're an author, so let's talk about that for a moment. What kind of books have you written?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so they're all Christian, Christian nonfiction or Christian living, and they're all born out of my sermons. So I don't have the bandwidth to write. I don't have the bandwidth and I don't have the interest. I'm actually not a huge fan of writing. I'm a fan of preparing sermons, I'm a fan of studying God's Word and preaching, and there's kind of two categories. You've got the pastors that manuscript their sermons, and I'm in that category, and then you have pastors that kind of have maybe abbreviated notes, just jarring their memory what to say.
Speaker 2:And so, because I manuscript my sermons, I'm polishing and refining this manuscript throughout the week, and so for years my wife was telling me, hey, you need to turn some of these sermons into books, and I kind of kept putting her off because I didn't need more to do in my life. And then I preached a series on marriage in my church and the other thing too, there's lots of commentary. So if you, I preach verse by verse through books of the Bible and it's not really I mean, it's not like commentaries aren't valuable I can show you, you know, bookshelves filled with commentaries in my office, but I'm not sure the world needs an extra commentary, you know, on Luke or first Samuel, and so I couldn't even turn a lot of my sermons just as I preach, verse by verse, into books, because I wasn't going to provide another commentary. But when I'd preach on some topics like marriage, finances, trials, I was able to turn those books into, or turn those sermon manuscripts into books.
Speaker 2:It's not like it's not like a perfect fit. Like you know, the first sermon is chapter one, the second sermon is chapter two, but I do have a lot of polished material that I spend time turning into books. But if it here's the thing, nick, if you read it, I preached on it. I don't have anything. You know, like Harvest House, they I had a multi-book deal with them and I think they were wanting my next book to be on parenting. You know kind of figure, and I know what I'm doing if I have 11 kids, which isn't isn't true.
Speaker 2:But anyway, but it's like, why don't I have a parenting book? I mean, someone could, anyone could wonder that. And it's like I just haven't preached on parenting and I don't not enough at least to have a book from it, and I don't have the bandwidth to sit down and write something right, about parenting. I mean, if I'm going to, if I'm going to write something, it's going to have to be my sermons for for my church. So let's talk about that marriage book. What's it called? It's called your Marriage, god's Way, and that was my first, my first book, and there was an accompanying workbook and it did surprisingly well. And I didn't know how well it did until I published other books and saw how poorly those did in comparison to it. So there's not a whole lot of money, you know, selling books.
Speaker 2:That's. There are two different things, nick, and there's a reason that a lot of people only publish one book because they're discouraged by the sales and the work behind it. So honestly, nick, I would tell anyone this I don't know how many of your listeners might aspire to write, and I I mean if I want to see anyone writing, it's Christians. And I mean, and then beyond that, if I want to see any Christians writing, it's pastors. So I don't know how many pastors listen to your show, but I love to see pastors write and I try to help pastors publish books. But I tell them ahead of time, because expectations shape experiences.
Speaker 2:You need to know, going into this, that the top 1% of books sell about 5,000 copies a year. A lot of other books only sell a couple hundred copies, maybe per year, but maybe over. If it's self-published, then it's only going to sell about 200 copies on average, and mostly to friends and family. So you probably won't even make back the money that you spend on editing cover, design, interior. So you got to have another motivation is my point and that's got to be equipping people, pointing them toward Christ, and that's where I get paid by my church. You know, I don't have to live off my author income forged by God's grace, because I wouldn't be able to, and so but I have them. I enjoy believing people getting more mileage out of my sermons. You know, seeing them in books, believing God, stretching them further, using them in people's lives. That's incredibly satisfying to me and that's kind of what keeps me going with writing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got a book. My third book's coming out in two weeks and it's based on a conversation I had with my niece.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she called me and she said hey, uncle Nick, I don't know what I'm doing. I can't, I don't know where to start. It doesn't make sense to me. What if I do it wrong? She's asking all these questions that everybody has and I thought, well, I'll send you some resources, and got off the phone with her and thought I'm going to have to send her 20 books, and so I really that just came out of a personal experience and decided to sit down and write that. But let's jump on your marriage book for a moment, because one of the things my podcasters do listen for is kind of marriage advice and marriage tips. So what do you believe are some of the most common problems couples face today in marriage?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I got a few answers to that, nick. I mean I could talk about this all day. When I talk about speaking, I basically mean doing marriage conferences. I do a few like my wife and I are going to Colorado to speak at a homeschooling conference Kevin Swanson's homeschool conference in a few weeks in June but primarily my speaking is doing marriage conferences at churches and event centers throughout the nation, and so that's really my passion. I've delivered a lot of these messages I don't know how many times lots, and I still enjoy it as much because I'm very passionate about this area.
Speaker 2:So if you ask me to talk about marriage, you'll probably have to stop me. I'll just go on and on. But the big thing I see, nick, is I see, very sadly, even in the church, people being shaped by the culture versus being shaped by God's word, and I see pastors shrinking away from telling people what scripture says, and I'll give you one example that I hope might be an encouragement. So I'm pastoring a pretty conservative church that has a heart to hear God's word preached boldly, so it's not like a challenging environment. You know, I don't like get up to talk about wives submitting to their husbands and wonder if people are going to throw tomatoes at me or something like that. Well, I was invited to speak at this marriage conference that a radio station was putting on and I didn't know any of the other speakers. So they bring the, they bring the keynote speakers together for a planning session and we're going around the room and one speaker says I'm going to talk about husbands loving their wives. The next speaker, which is a husband and wife team, they said we're going to talk about communication and I thought, well, you know, there's a message for husbands, let's have a message for wives. I said I'll talk about wives submitting to their husbands, and it's just like the whole room just goes silent, you know, everyone's heads go down and it's like, you know, did he just say? Did he just say he's going to talk about wives submitting to their husbands, and so that kind of cause.
Speaker 2:I'm sort of used to my nice conservative, biblical environment, you know, preaching the word, and if people want me to go to a marriage conference at their church, they they probably know what they're going to get, that I'm going to talk about marriage very biblically, and this was clearly a more liberal environment than I'm used to. And I'm getting to a point with this. So I asked them, I said, would you guys just trust me to handle this topic delicately? And this one guy, he pipes up finally after someone speaks and goes.
Speaker 2:You know well, I don't really like to use the word submission. I use the word defer and I'm like you know, the Bible uses the word submission. It's repeated. It's not like it's not a vague shadowy. You know, it's like wives submit. That occurs four or five times. Titus 2, older women teach younger women to obey their husbands at this conference. And this is what was fascinating, nick. I don't think I'm the best preacher or something like that, but my message got good feedback because I think God's people desire truth and it's refreshing for them when it's preached clearly.
Speaker 2:And so there's people listening, even women, and their spirit. Their flesh might resist it, but their spirit yearns to hear God's word. And I don't mean preaching it authoritatively or abusively or something, I'm just saying presenting the plain teaching of scripture. And when I did that I think it was kind of like, wow, you know someone that's just going to tell us what the word says and they're not going to sugarcoat it and, you know, try to massage it and remove all the pointedness and just present it as it is in there and talk about what it means and doesn't mean for wives to submit. Present it as it is in there and talk about what it means and doesn't mean for wives to submit. And so my point is, in answer to your question, I just see this very strong aversion to being clear with people about what Scripture says. And that leaves, you know, we don't want to talk about husbands leading in the home, we don't want to talk about husbands being the head of the relationship or the spiritual leader, you know, because that's going to seem, that might seem a little chauvinistic or or even barbaric. And but one of the one of the interesting things, nick, that I'll share with your listeners is what I've noticed as I talk about marriage is because submission is almost viewed as this sort of like taboo thing.
Speaker 2:You would expect women just to be coming up complaining saying I can't believe that God's word commands wives to submit to their husbands, but I've never once heard a woman say that. Do you know the biggest? Can you guess the biggest complaint that I do hear from women frequently? I wish my husband would lead. My husband is not a spiritual leader. I wish he would pray with me. I wish he would read the word with me. So I don't hear wives complaining about having to submit to their husbands although I'm not saying it comes easy for wives. I hear wives complaining that their husbands are not spiritual men or spiritual leaders in the home.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of women want to respect their husband. They want a man to look up to. They want a man to lead up to. They want a man to lead. God's just built women that way and he's built men to lead.
Speaker 2:It might come a little easier for some men to lead than others, but God does want us to be leaders in our homes and I feel like if you have a strong spiritual man, this is one of the other things, nick, I feel like maybe, as churches are kind of feminized a bit, men are discouraged from leading in their homes because they don't see men leading in the church, and so it's a disconnect.
Speaker 2:If a church is being led by women and I'm definitely not saying women don't have places in churches or places leading women or leading children or serving in different ministries women can be great assets in the church and different positions and roles, positions and roles. But when a church is primarily led by women, the men in that church not only do they not serve or grow, but they also don't see the need to be leaders in their homes, and so I think that's a big problem the absence of male leadership in the marriage, because generally most wives, if a husband says let's pray or read the Word, you're going to have a wife who's thrilled about that right.
Speaker 1:So let me ask the question. You made an interesting point on churches being feminized. That happens not because the women are stronger in leadership, but because the men aren't stepping up to lead and so that becomes kind of a natural selection within churches that they become that way. So how do we get from a place or how do we get men to step up and be leaders both in their marriage but also in the church?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate what you're saying, nick. There's kind of that vacuum. Then if men are not stepping up in that role, then women inevitably kind of fill in and women off sometimes have more time. Let's say, a guy's working 40, 50 hours a week and his wife is staying home or taking care of kids, she might have more time or more flexibility to be involved with the church and so she sort of naturally takes on those different leadership roles and so really it's kind of sola scriptura we need to go back to God's word, see what it says and hold to that versus tradition and versus culture.
Speaker 2:And really if men will preach these truths, I believe that they're well-received. I think there's a sphere like, if I say this and I'm going to lose my church or I'm going to upset all these people, there might be a few people that are upset, but for most people they know this is what God's word says. It's not like a hidden truth and that people are going to act like they've never heard that before. And so when men begin to lead, I do think it is genuinely received well by the church, and I think there's a lot of women that are waiting, wishing their husbands would be more spiritual in the home and even in the church too.
Speaker 1:I would say that that is probably a common counseling question that I get from women is hey, how can I get my husband to lead? Sometimes it's how can I get my husband to come to church? But even with the guys that come to church, how can I get them to lead? I want them to and we don't sit and talk about that submission idea in that moment. But in that moment they're desiring for their husband to be who god's called them to be.
Speaker 2:but culturally we've stepped away from that for some reason within the church culture yeah, well said and I'll share something brother you met, you made a good point there or you're kind of. You're kind of looking to something that I think some women are not totally aware of, and I've noticed this from marriage conferences and questions that I've received. So let's just say for a moment that we tend to project ourselves on others. So you and I I mean knowing that they look at me and they think they can't do what I do Right, and I'm amazed. I'm like how can you build your own house? How do you know how to work on your car? I just those aren't skills I have. And they look at me and they're like how do you get up front?
Speaker 2:But because that comes easier to me than building a house I assume that's easy, for Nick is a lot of men want to be spiritual leaders, but first they don't know what it means or what it looks like. They're like where do I begin? And second, there's a fear about it. And so this gentleman this is the first time I noticed this A guy comes up to me at a marriage conference. He talks to me privately I could tell that it was a sensitive subject just from his demeanor and he says you know I'm listening to you. I want to be a spiritual leader in my home, but what does that look like? How do I do that? You know, how do I read the word of my family? And I was like, wow, that's interesting. Okay, you know, go ahead and choose a book of the Bible that you enjoy and that you're familiar with, and start at chapter one, verse one, and kind of read a verse and see if your family wants to share any thoughts. But just telling him something that simply and that basic gave him the knowledge he needed to be able to go home and read the word of this family.
Speaker 2:The other thing is, I found that men have a lot of fear, and this is where women come in to this, nick. Women are not aware of the great influence they have on their husbands. And I'll give you an example. There's a gentleman, a great guy, in my church. I'm counseling them and his wife really wants him to read the word with her. I don't want to look like I'm correcting him in front of her, so I talked to him privately and I'm like hey brother, you know, your wife wants you to read the word with her. I really think if you do that, it's going to be a big blessing, help your marriage. They come back like a week or two later and he, he says to me I'm never going to read the word with my wife again and I'm like what? This is like the opposite of what I expect. So he says everything I said.
Speaker 2:She questioned, she disagreed with every interpretation I had of every verse. She told me I'm mispronouncing everything, I need to go talk to the pastor at church and he basically said it was humiliating. And so that's what I mean. So if a wife, my wife, she does ladies conferences at our church and she asked me a couple years ago to come speak at the women's conference, which I said I can do that, and I think the women are kind of like what's the pastor Scott doing here talking at speaking at the women's conference?
Speaker 2:So I shared with this group of women the influence they have on their husbands and how afraid their husbands might be to read the word or pray with their family. You know, what if I don't know what to say? What if I fumble my prayer? What if I can't answer this question about this verse? What if you know? And these women are like, wow, you know, I never thought that I never thought of that before and I said ladies, if you want to make a withdrawal when your husband's teaching the Bible or reading the Bible with you, you can do that, but you need to make sure you've made a bunch more deposits than that.
Speaker 2:You know, don't compare your husband with someone. Don't tell him. Don't tell him he doesn't this at every marriage conference. I don't care how badly your husband does when he teaches the Bible or reads the Bible with his family. You look at him and thank him for being a godly man. You know, put your hand on his leg, look him in the eyes and say, hey, I know that there's only like 0.001% of the population of women who actually has a husband who reads the word with her. So I'm so thankful for you, you know. Give your husband that encouragement. He needs to want to keep doing that, because I think a lot of women are. Naturally they might be kind of critical, like you know. Why are you choosing those verses? I don't think the kids are going to understand this. Do we have to do this Bible study right now? I'm not sure that's correct what you're saying. Those are the sorts of things that really defeat men and hurt their burden to be leaders in the home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I want to say something real quick, because every story you're telling I can think of a couple I've talked to with those same stories. The husbands felt humiliated as the wife knew more scripture than he did. But the wife really wanted the Bible study with her husband but it just didn't go how they both imagined it going, which made the husband shrink back, the wife get mad that he didn't want to do it anymore and this perpetual cycle happens right, and the guy just doesn't know what to do and the wife's frustrated. But it does come back to what we talked a little bit about earlier, about the struggles with men in leadership within the church. We have about 100 guys in men's Bible studies throughout the week and I think, man, that is a great place to start right. Like just get in with other guys and talk scripture.
Speaker 1:You made the comment that most people don't think they could talk on stage like we do and you know we hear that a lot, that's a fear of people jumping on stage. But to your point, like know we hear that a lot, that's a fear of people jumping on stage. But to your point, like I couldn't build a house, I couldn't do a lot of things. My church knows I'm not handy at all, but the heart's there right, and so, even with the things I'm not handy at, we've got a shelf that fell at the house recently and I've put off trying to fix it because I know I'm not going to do it right.
Speaker 1:But my wife and I were talking about this morning. We just got to try, right. We just got to put it back up If it doesn't go. Well, I know people, but we have to start somewhere. So I had a lot of topics I wanted to cover with you today. We may jump to some other ones, another podcast, but let's kind of wrap up this marriage talk, if you will. If you had the opportunity to sit across from someone that's listening to this podcast today and their marriage is hard right, whether it's the wife or the husband, whether it's the biblical side or just a tough season of marriage, what would be without knowing specifics of their life? What would be your advice to them? As a starting point?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's great, Nick, and definitely, as you know, by the time people come to talk to you about their marriage problems, they should have come to talk to you like six months earlier or years earlier. So they're not coming with like a little issue, they're coming where it's like they're not. These people aren't, you know, talking anymore. They're like more like roommates or business partners, and so you almost wonder where to begin. And so I feel this very strongly, nick. I feel like our marriages are reflections of our relationship with Christ, and so what I mean by that is we generally treat our spouse the way we do because of our relationship with Christ. And so to help people grow, let's say, vertically, is to help them grow horizontally. And so picture this scenario let's say a couple comes in and they're all upset with each other and I say something like tell me what your devotional time looks like. You know, I know them, they're probably in my church and I know that maybe out of the last few months, they go to church about half the time, two Sundays out of four, right, so I see Christ as not a priority to them. So I say to them, so I say to them what does your prayer life. Look like, what is your time in the word look like. And the guy's like why are you asking me that? I just told you how my wife disrespects me? Or the woman says why are you talking to me about my time in the word when I just told you my husband's screaming at me or getting drunk or something? Were you not listening? And I'll say I was listening. But I'm telling you that if you'll improve the relationship with Christ generally, these horizontal issues have a way of working themselves out, and so that's why I'm not trying to be a referee. I used to be, I think, a bad marriage counselor because I'm going to referee and help everyone figure out who's right and who's wrong, which does nothing to improve the relationship. And so I'm trying to get people to strengthen their relationship with the Lord and I really believe that as their relationship with the Lord strengthens, then their marriage strengthens or the relationship. Every horizontal relationship is improved through a stronger relationship with Christ.
Speaker 2:So I'm generally talking to people like hey, let's start. You know, reading the word here's. I give people homework. You know, this week I'd like you to read Ephesians 5, the marriage passage, every single evening together and every morning together, or then first Peter three or I'd like you to make sure you pray together every morning and every evening. You know, husband, it's on you to make sure that the couple does that. And so once so you know what they really want when they come in and you know this is, they just want that that referee to just say who's right and who's wrong, and that that always kind of that doesn't, doesn't help things. And so to point them back to Christ and get them practicing those spiritual disciplines. I think marriages inevitably do improve when people will commit to doing that.
Speaker 2:So if you're listening to this and your marriage is struggling, then I would say you know, spend the time in God's word. Try to spend some time in God's word with your spouse. If your wife, you know, don't expect a John MacArthur sermon or Billy Graham crusade from your husband. He's working all week. Just be happy that he's reading with you verse by verse, that, because the power is in God's word to go out and wash over and sanctify. I mean Ephesians 5.25 says God's word sanctifies and cleanses. It's not in the husband's oratory ability, you know. It's not like if he's winsome and charismatic, then the sanctification is going to be greater. The word is what's sanctifying. So as long as the husband is reading it and it's washing over the family, it's going to be having that sanctifying effect and improving the relationship. So that's what I do. I generally point people back to Christ and back to the word to see those spiritual disciplines improve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's the foundational right. Like their foundation isn't right? They're focusing on all the wrong things, and the right things they don't even take time for and you're right, I mean, by the time they get to us, we're firefighters trying to put out a massive blaze that we would wish we could have seen when it started. So let me ask you this we wanted to talk a little bit about biblical finances and trials today, but maybe we'll come back and do that another day. We wanted to talk a little bit about biblical finances and trials today, but maybe we'll come back and do that another day. If people want to connect with you, if they want to hear more of your story or pick up your books, how can they connect with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my website, scottloffierorg and you'll probably put the link to it in the show notes is the hub you know. Everything kind of goes out from there. You can find my sermons, my books, my speaking engagements, my YouTube channel, or pretty much. Just going to my website allows you to find and you can contact me through it if you have any questions. And then the other thing is I got a free gift for your listeners. It's called Seven Biblical Insights for Marriage and it's a short read it's not a full book and you can go to my website. You can download that for free and I hope that would be a blessing to your listeners. And so, yeah, that's the place to find me. So thanks for having me on the show, nick. I appreciate what you're doing and your ministry and just connecting with another pastor and brother in Christ like this. So thanks for your heart for people to be growing in their relationships with the Lord.
Speaker 1:Nick, now, I was thrilled that you could make the time today, and it's always great to connect with another pastor that's preaching verse by verse, because that is less common in today's world. I another pastor that's preaching verse by verse, because that is less common in today's world. I kind of do a mixture of the two, but we're 36 weeks in Romans right now, walking through the whole book this year, so I can appreciate that for sure. And it's going on. Hey, podcast listeners, if you want to know more about Scott, please jump on his website. Download that short book that he's got. Dive into your marriage. Make it a priority. Make sure your relationship with God is foundational. If you're struggling, let that be the first place that you go. I hope you have an incredible week and we will talk to you again next week.