Beyond Sunday with Pastor Nic
Join me for a more personal look into the weekend sermons, as well as some thoughts on theology, marriage, parenting, and leadership. I will also explore some of your most asked questions throughout the year.
www.nic-williams.com
Beyond Sunday with Pastor Nic
Conversations on Romans: Unpacking Grace and Truth with Special Guest Dr. Joe Davis
Pastor Joe Davis joins us for a special conversation about our parallel journeys preaching through the book of Romans to our congregations. We explore why this profound theological letter can be intimidating yet transformative for both pastors and churches alike.
• Pastor Joe's long-standing connection to South Shore Church dating back to 2008
• Why many pastors avoid preaching Romans despite its theological importance
• How the challenging passages in Romans 1 require careful, balanced teaching
• The surprising enthusiasm congregations have shown for deep biblical teaching
• Romans' unique ability to define grace in a way that cannot be manipulated or cheapened
• The importance of looking for the "but now" moments of grace throughout the book
• Why preaching verse-by-verse through biblical books eliminates the pressure to be artificially relevant
• The challenge of helping people engage with Romans throughout the week, not just on Sundays
• Looking forward to Romans 8 and other powerful passages that transform our understanding of grace
Find Pastor Joe's books on Amazon under Joseph Davis and connect with Grace Life Sarasota online.
Hey podcasters, welcome back to another episode of Beyond Sunday special episode. Today I have a guest with me and you guys are going to be excited to meet him. Some of you guys know him if you've been at South Shore for a while. He's preached here before. I've been a friend of South Shore for a long time, a friend of mine. He's a pastor in town, an author, an entrepreneur, a rescuer of people. Honestly, I think he has one of the most unique churches in Sarasota and I say that because I don't think most churches are unique. I think most churches are just like other churches, mine included, but what he does is just different. Maybe we'll touch on that a little bit today. But, joe Pastor, joe Davis, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Man, we've been talking about doing this for a while. I'm excited to finally get rolling on it. Man, it's been awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it actually came, because I was talking to Dustin Myers. You know, Dustin?
Speaker 2:the one who likes me. He likes me better than you. He does like you better than me.
Speaker 1:I don't even think he listens to my podcast.
Speaker 2:You're here, he'll listen, dustin.
Speaker 1:I was telling Dustin that you were doing Romans, I was doing Romans and he's like you guys should do a podcast together and I thought that's actually a really good idea. It's a great idea, and we've been talking about it forever, haven't been able to pull it off. So before we jump into the idea behind the podcast and talking about Romans today, for those that don't know, you, take a moment to introduce yourself. Tell us a little about your church and what's going on.
Speaker 2:Well, we started Grace Life in 2016, but my relationship with South Shore goes back to 2008. I just moved back to Sarasota after we had lost our daughter, sarah, and Brian Yost was the pastor at South Shore and God really used Brian to shepherd me back to health spiritually, to get me back into ministry. I'd started the Nightlife Center, which was an outreach to teens. I think you would come to the allies meeting there a few times where I had the youth pastors come in. But South Shore was my church and Brian was my pastor. I still call him my pastor today and so I'm very close to a lot of people in your church who are kind of like that core South Shore group. And so South Shore has just always had a very special place in my heart and Laura's heart and my son Ben, because at a time in our life when we needed it the most, this was the body of believers that God used to heal us and to get us back into ministry. So I have great affection for South Shore and I have great affection for you. I think we met when we were both kind of doing some youth ministry in town and I was so proud of you when you went through a difficult time.
Speaker 2:In a prior ministry. You took a stand for the gospel that I was just man. This guy Nick, he's awesome and I just we just became. We were friends before, but then we became closer and then, when you started here and it's just been I have tremendous respect for you. You're a brilliant guy, great communicator, you're a great shepherd for your people and God has really blessed your ministry here in this campus at South Shore and I'm just amazed by how God has used you. I'm a little jealous sometimes of all the things you're able to do that I can't as far as your talents and skills, but we have a really cool relationship and I know that you have been a tremendous blessing. You've spoken at our church a few times too for some of our recovery ministries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I didn't even pay him to say any of that.
Speaker 2:So well done, joe. No, I love, I love the people at South Shore and they love me. And you know, because we just go back a long ways and it's just a great place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've spoken at your recovery ministries. You speak at ours on Sunday night, so that's been a huge thing. And you've spoke here at the church before. It's been a while, but you've spoken here and our churches are different in some ways. I kind of alluded to that in the beginning, but we've always supported each other over the years. And what do you think that partnership means? Because I don't know that all churches partner. It's a little baffling sometimes that how many churches don't communicate and talk. But even especially, probably through this Roman series. I mean you and I have had a couple of phone calls talking through the gospel, talking through Romans, talking through some hard passages. What does that mean for you?
Speaker 2:First of all, it's very humbling to have a friend like you who is such an encouragement to me. You buy my books, you post pictures of them. It's awesome stuff. But it's meant a lot to me to get to know you better and to know that we have this like-mindedness. And I will tell you that one of the things I love about you is you have one of the similar passions that we have at Grace. Life is you're preaching through books of the Bible and most churches are afraid to do that because there are hard passages that are going to be difficult to challenge, but you can't shy away from them and I really appreciate the fact that we had that like-mindedness. You know it helps me bounce ideas off of you, but it's been a lot to our church and it's been a lot to me personally.
Speaker 1:So I didn't always preach that way, and one of the reasons I didn't is I didn't think people wanted it. Oh really yeah.
Speaker 2:So when did that?
Speaker 1:change for you. I thought, man, church growth right You're trying to reach more people and be successful, yeah. I just felt like man, that's what they want to hear.
Speaker 2:Another series on family or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I realized people don't know what they want to hear and in our society they're getting so much of that the topical, the how do you do it that they need the word of God. And so it really. It became a conviction of mine, probably about two years ago, that I realized, man, I need to dig in with our church more, and first series we did was the gospel of John, and I wasn't sure how it would go and people loved it, like I.
Speaker 1:I was shocked at how many people loved it and we'll talk about this in a moment but I've been shocked about how many people have loved Romans Me too.
Speaker 2:Me too, you know, because I feel like a lot of times, nick, people have started to treat the Bible and passages in the Bible like memes, and it's just heartbreaking when I see somebody take a picture of a Bible page and then they'll outline something or circle it and try to apply it to a politician or a cultural event, I just my heart sinks because there's so much more like no, no, you got to take a picture of the seven pages before that you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the word of God is so uniquely powerful and connected, and I'm thankful that you are preaching the Bible that way. It's an encouragement.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about this. This is our topic for the day where we're diving in. Why, romans? What led you to choose the book of Romans for preaching this year? And I've been talking about this for probably a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at least yeah. So first of all, full disclosure. I've known that I was going to have to preach Romans at some point for a long time, and I've been putting it off.
Speaker 2:I remember a phone call you told me that I've been putting it off because I said, you know, at some point I'm going to have to do Romans. I was afraid to preach Romans for a couple of reasons. First of all, I'm Reformed in my theology and the idea is, if you're a Reformed theologian, you got to take Romans for three years because there's so much in there. So I was afraid of that. Right, I was afraid that I would have 52 weeks in Romans. People aren't going to, oh my goodness. But the other thing is there's some difficult passages and there are people in our church, as you said, we have a very unique church. It's very diverse people in backgrounds and ethnicity and all that kind of stuff. And I knew it was going to be a challenging thing, but I finally came to the point where I realized and I knew it was going to be a challenging thing, but I finally came to the point where I realized, you know what? Our church was healthy, it was growing and I felt, you know, this is the best time right now. There's not going to be a better time right now. We're on the verge of God doing some incredible things.
Speaker 2:And I really do think, nick, when it comes to the book of Romans, whether or not you preach it or not, or how you preach it, defines what you really are as a church, because most churches are going to stay away from it. Well, you know, it's just. It reads like a legal brief. You know, it's the greatest theological treatise in the history of man and he didn't write it with any type of search engines. It's incredible, right, it's a miraculous thing. And I think the fact that you do preach Romans and how you preach it defines what you are as a church. And I wanted to make sure. I felt like we'd already defined ourselves, but I wanted to throw down the marker. You know, this is who we are, and I was thinking about it. Then, when you told me you were doing it, I said oh well, then I'm doing it. You kind of pushed me over that.
Speaker 1:I remember that phone call because you said, man, you kind of cautioned me Like are you sure you want to do that, Because once you dive in, you're diving in. And then you and I started talking about doing this thing together. Right, Like that was the plan.
Speaker 2:By the way, I have a little bit of a beef, I have a little bit of bitterness that I'm holding onto towards you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm sure.
Speaker 2:So when we talked about this and I said, yeah, I think I'm going to start it like the second week in January, you said, yeah, we'll probably do it early February. I said, great, you'll only be like three weeks, you know, and I work ahead of time so we can collaborate. Three months later, you finally get started. It's like you pushed me out there on this Roman's cliff.
Speaker 1:I said good luck.
Speaker 2:And then I turned around and you were gone. I'm just kidding on, I'm just kidding Anyway it's been great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, our series started later than originally planned, but it's been good. So, romans what themes or truths in Romans feel especially urgent maybe, or even relevant, either for your church right now, or just culture right now? What is it that excites you about or scares you even?
Speaker 2:I think the best thing about Romans for our church and for the culture is Romans gives you a definition of grace that cannot be manipulated or filtered or cheapened. It defines grace as something that is powerful. It defines grace. Grace comes before faith, grace comes before mercy Grace comes all of those things are part of grace. So Paul does a great job of taking this definition of grace and saying look, everything about our relationship with God is undeserved favor, this grace thing and I think that's one of the things that's so powerful about Romans that our culture needs to understand what grace, from a theological perspective, really is. And that's what it's been powerful for me to see.
Speaker 1:So we've alluded to this multiple times that Romans isn't always easy to preach and it's not easy to hear. What makes Romans a hard book for modern audiences? Why do you and I, why do we, have pauses to preaching Romans, the weight of it and knowing the messages? You and I had a conversation early on in January. One of the things I love about you and your preaching style is you and I hope this is okay to share like you, have people that test your messages, if you will, that read what you write, not after you preach it, before Before you preach it Absolutely Making sure that you haven't humanized the gospel, that you haven't put your own spin on it, that it is true to the text, and I love that about you. I wish my messages were done in time to do that. I'm just trying to get ready for a Sunday here, but we do that especially in this Romans, because there are some hard passages.
Speaker 2:So what makes it so hard? You know, especially in this culture, this culture that's fighting over wokeness and what is relevant and what is not relevant. And you know, is morality really subjective or objective? Man, there is no delineation about what is right and wrong in the way Paul writes. He writes just in this bold way that, like, could you imagine if Paul wrote Romans today? Like he would be canceled? Yeah, he'd be canceled.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that makes me nervous are those hard passages. He talks about sexual purity and idolatry and all these things. But I feel like the other part of it is there are people on the other side who are like ultra conservative, who have turned romans into something to beat people up with. Yeah, so you have this. Like there's romans isn't relevant for today and other people. Well, you better listen to this, because Romans is talking about you. No, it's talking about all of us, and so I hope that answers your question. But to me, the hard passages are because he doesn't really leave any room for error when it comes to interpreting. Well, what does Paul mean in the Greek? Well, it means the same thing in the English translation, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting, because I do think people weaponize Romans. Oh, so much.
Speaker 2:I have.
Speaker 1:I've weaponized it in my past and it's hard because there's the just to get specific, there's the passage in Romans 1 that talks about homosexuality and you and I both have people in our churches that have chosen that lifestyle and you don't want to hurt people but you want to speak the truth to them. But the problem with that passage is it doesn't only speak about homosexuality.
Speaker 2:Though you and I were talking about this the other day. So he lists all these sins, right, yeah, and one of them in there is disobedience to parents. And so when I was preaching the second half of Romans 1, I said have you guys noticed that disobedience to parents is in there? Well, no, because you guys are noticing the sexual part of this. What about the lying, and what about the gossiping and the slander, and what about disobedience to parents? It's in there twice. And so you're right, that was a hard one. That was a hard one. I think I called you, yeah, because I added you to my list of sermon coaches and I said Nick, am I soft peddling this, yeah, or am I presenting in a way that's going to edify the body of Christ and not just look like I'm targeting one person, yeah, or two people, or 10 people?
Speaker 1:That's the line we walk with everything we preach, right? Are we soft pedaling this to make people feel comfortable, yeah? Or are we targeting one group because of one word or one passage? Or we speak into the whole crowd, because Romans speaks to the whole crowd, right, all of us, 100%. It speaks to every one of us. Nobody escapes, nobody's safe in.
Speaker 2:Romans and the opening of Romans, unless they're in grace, unless they're in grace, then they're safe.
Speaker 1:The opening of Romans is just a court case against humanity, Like he's just writing. This list, laundry list of this is why you need Jesus. You're all sinners, and if you don't think you are, let me list out some things that are wrong with you.
Speaker 2:This is why grace is so essential. That's what he's telling us, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So how do you prepare your heart, but also the heart of your people, to hear these hard passages, to hear the tougher more convicting parts of Romans.
Speaker 2:So, to let people get into the pull back the curtain on us pastors. And when we're writing, right, there's always the situation where we're writing a sermon and we think, oh this person, I hope they're there, right, right, you've done that, right? I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, of course not. Of course you don't. But when it came to Romans, I haven't been able to do that, because every time my mind started thinking, oh, this person. Then I realized, oh, no, I need to hear this. And when I'm writing and I'm usually working about two and a half weeks ahead of time, so I've had a chance to really ruminate on it and think about it and I got to tell you by the time I've preached it or I'm ready, I get up to preach it. It's been kicking my butt yeah, excuse me for three weeks. And so the way I prepare my heart is, when I'm reading this and I'm writing it and I'm studying it and I'm researching, I'm always asking myself okay, how would I want to hear this? Or how would I hear this if?
Speaker 1:I were being preached to and that's how I go through with Romans. No, that's good. Yeah, that's good. I mean similar. I preached through the 23rd Psalm, man, probably a year and a half ago, and it was the most convicting message for me that I've ever preached. It was a 12 week series, just taking it apart, and it was the most convicting message for me that I've ever preached. It was a 12-week series, just taking it apart.
Speaker 1:And it was one of those that I fell in love with Jesus. More right, you preached Psalm 23 for 12 weeks. 12 weeks, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:It was amazing.
Speaker 1:I mean, it wasn't me amazing, but it was amazing for me. Awesome, just diving into it and realizing man how good God is, and it was good for me. So, into it and realizing man how good God is, and it was good for me. So let me ask you this Looking at your church, looking at the hearts of your people, what do you hope this series will accomplish? You're doing 36 weeks roughly.
Speaker 2:No, I think it's going to be 24. 24, okay, I'm averaging about two, so let me just clarify what that means. Yeah, I've decided to preach Romans, different than any other reformed pastor, probably ever has.
Speaker 2:Because you're not doing three years. No, I decided. You know what, when Paul wrote Romans, there were no massive commentaries on it for his people. It was read out loud in community in big chunks, and so he wanted he was, he designed it to be heard and processed real time, without a thesaurus, without a concordance and without looking at what John Gill's expository commentary wrote on it.
Speaker 2:So I've been preaching it and I've been telling my people I want you to hear this as if you are a Jew because we have Jews in our church or a Gentile in first century Rome hearing it read out loud without your own scroll, for the first time. So I've been doing about two sermons per chapter in bigger chunks and, instead of trying to dive into every word, trying to look at the big picture and what I've been hoping it will accomplish. Honestly, Nick, I believe at the end of Romans and this will be true for your church as well our congregations will be incredibly theologically relevant and theologically in tune with God's word more than they ever have been, Because if you can understand Romans, boy, the rest of it starts to come into place, Would you agree? So I think our churches, our congregations, are going to be so fluent theologically at the end of this. I'm so excited about that. I really am.
Speaker 1:One of the things I love the picture of Romans for me, for Paul, is he's in Gaius' house, his scribe is writing this stuff down and I can almost see Paul, just so excited, pacing the room. And that's why we have these long run-on sentences. That's why he's because he's not writing like an author. That's right. He is just speaking out his heart for God and what does it speak to his brilliance?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh incredible, like he might be one of the smartest people in church history, if not the smartest, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you've been in this how many weeks? So far, I've done 12 weeks, 12 weeks. Yes, I am behind.
Speaker 2:Yes, way. Yes, we are aware you are 12 weeks in.
Speaker 1:What has the response from the early part of this series been for you, from your church? Have you seen any fruit? Is there excitement about this? What's going on?
Speaker 2:Man, I have been stunned by how God has used it. I knew that people would like it, but I didn't think people would love it. Does that make sense? Yeah, I feel the same way. I can't like, and I've had people that I didn't expect, like after preaching that second half of chapter one okay, that passage and if you guys are listening to the podcast, don't know why I'm mentioning it.
Speaker 2:Go read second half of chapter one and you can see why us pastors might be full of anxiety. I had people I didn't expect come up to me in tears saying Pastor Joe, that was great, I really loved that. Thank you so much for just preaching that the way you did. And I was like wow. And so once I got past first the second half of chapter one, I thought I won't have to preach that again for 30 years. I was relieved. But you know, it's just been wonderful. It's been wonderful to see God's people and that just speaks to the spirit of God right and the power of his word. It's not because the way I'm preaching it or the way you're preaching it, it's the spirit of God saying I love using my word.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I talked to a retired pastor earlier this week that said in his ministry he never preached through Romans and he said he wasn't scared of it. He just really didn't know how to not offend everybody in his church and preach it. And that doesn't mean he didn't preach parts of Romans or pieces of it, but he just never sat down and did the whole thing because he was scared of it. And I do think that that's probably common that pastors are scared of. If I preach this, half my church is leaving. Oh yeah, if I tell them the hard truth of the gospel, they're going to go. And what am I going to do? Yes, and that's sad, but I understand it. Right, crazy. Having that conversation with that guy the other day really just rocked my mind a little bit, because he's a guy I have a lot of respect for. But I also felt his heart saying I wanted to. I just didn't know how to do it, Nick.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm not trying to overplay it, but it's probably one of the most important decisions we've made as pastors. Yeah, I don't disagree Is to preach through Romans Would you agree with that? Yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1:So let me throw this on you for a moment. How has preaching through Romans impacted you, either spiritually, emotionally or even in your leadership? How has that affected you over the last 12 weeks, or even longer, since you prepare?
Speaker 2:So, obviously, because of the way we've always preached at Grace Life, it's always been chapter by chapter, verse by verse, book by book. So I've always had confidence in God's word. But in preaching the Romans, for me it's just been, you know what. I'll never want to preach another way, and it's just given me even more confidence that God uses his word. It's such an amazing, this word of God. The guys from the Bible Project do a great job talking about hyperlinks all through scripture, and when you stop and really start looking at them, it's pretty fascinating. It's an amazing and it's just. It's so comforting to know that it's never going to wear me out. Or I'm never going to wear it out. You know it'll wear me out, but I'm never going to wear it out. So that's what I would say yeah, yeah, I would think that's spot on.
Speaker 1:I think when you get to this season of preaching books of the Bible and there are a lot of young pastors that still stay away from it for reasons I've talked about it's easier. God's already done all the work.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't have to try to be relevant.
Speaker 1:No, because God's word is relevant All the time. Yes, so what has surprised you or challenged you the most so far?
Speaker 2:in Romans. So my sermon coaches they have not liked the fact that I have not gone into more detail. They think, no, you should slow down, you should do like five sermons in this chapter. And I've held true to my original idea, which is no, I want my people to hear the way it was heard in the first century. That's the historical relevant context, and so that's been one of the things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which honestly leaves you for 30 years down the road to come back. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not coming back. I'm going to Psalms for a little while, probably after this.
Speaker 1:I hear you So-. Let's take Sunday morning. We pour out the word of God Like that's our heart. That's what we spend so much time and energy during the week on. How are you helping your people engage with Romans outside of Sundays?
Speaker 2:We started a grace group we call them grace groups or some people call them life groups or small groups that I'm leading and it's just question and answer Anything you want to ask me about what I've been preaching. Oh well, and we go into detail on some of these topics and some of these ideas and it's just been tremendous and I've also invited people. If you have questions, message me or email me. So we've gotten a lot of dynamic flow back and forth on that.
Speaker 2:I have had more requests for a pastor Joe, can we get together for dinner to discuss this than I have in any other sermon series. So I've been going, taking people out to dinner, been talking about Romans and grace groups and I've never done a podcast with another pastor about the sermon series I'm preaching. So there's a lot of different things that are happening and people are going to hear this podcast. They're going to put it on our stream, you're going to have it on yours, we'll put it out there. So that's it's been amazing people. It's hard sometimes for people to to really engage with your sermon throughout the week.
Speaker 1:I was tired of getting done at 1230 on Sunday and then Sunday night, starting a new message and doing nothing with what just happened yesterday and thought, man, I poured so much time and energy into that. I know there are conversations to be had, I know there are stuff I couldn't touch on Sunday because I didn't have time and it's gone. And I thought, you know what? I want to wake up Monday morning and still talk about what I preached on yesterday because it's still in my heart and I know it's still on the minds of people. Some of them have no idea what I preached yesterday, and so I want to make sure that I'm doing justice to the time I poured into God's word. Nick, how old are you? 44.
Speaker 2:All right. So, first of all, your wisdom is more than a 44-year-old I think I've told you that before but also I'm so jealous of how you use technology like this, so much better than I do. I've learned a lot from you just watching how you use this stuff and I thought, man, I need to really restart up. I had a podcast a couple of years ago a podcast a couple of years ago and it was good. But, man, you've really challenged me and I'm probably going to have to start doing this too. So thanks a lot, nick. I appreciate you giving more work to me Making you work more.
Speaker 2:I love it. You're stretching me as I watch you do things like this. I love it.
Speaker 1:I love it. My mind doesn't stop on the gospel and I used to think that was a problem. I never have time to rest. But I realized, no, I have more to do, yes, and I'm just not doing it.
Speaker 1:And that's why my mind's not resting. I have stuff in there that I want to get out and I'm having to put it to the side to get to the next thing. I'm like that's not fair to the gifts God's put in my heart. That's right, and so trying to flesh it out there. But technology is hard. So let me ask you this kind of on that same idea of you helping people in Romans and you alluded to this because you're having dinners with people people are reaching out. So how are you helping people through the harder truths of sin and wrath and judgment, while also highlighting grace?
Speaker 2:Well, thankfully I don't have to do much because the book of Romans is doing it, because even in the beginning parts, right where there's some really hard stuff, he still gives hints and markers that there's something better coming. It's just brilliant. And then you know, second half of chapter four and chapter five and part of chapter six, you start, you really get some encouraging stuff, and then, six and seven, it gets a little bit harder. He's using some analogies that are difficult. Right, he uses a series of analogies to explain how grace has fulfilled the law and he goes through that and that gets a little bit wonky.
Speaker 2:But then I keep telling our people that, listen, there are parts of this that have been very encouraging, parts that are challenging, but there's some incredible stuff coming. There's some incredible stuff and I can't wait to get to them, you know. But anyway, so that's what I would say. Paul's been doing it for us, right? Because he talks about these hard things, but he always says but there's grace, but there's grace, but now. But now I think it was my fourth or fifth sermon in the series, maybe it wasn't, it was titled. But now, because he says all these things and he says but now grace has, and that was just like yeah, right, you remember?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. So what's coming up in the series that you're especially looking forward?
Speaker 2:to preach. Okay, the next one will be week 13. I'm not doing it this week and I won't be doing it on Palm Sunday. We're doing a baptism on Palm Sunday and I've decided to do Lazarus for Easter. So this won't be for about three weeks, but it's on the idea where he uses divorce as an analogy of grace and in Deuteronomy, about the husband putting out the wife who is unfaithful or displeasing, depending on how it's translated. And it made me realize wait a minute he's making analogy of the law as a husband who was displeased with us, his spouse, and put us not only up for divorce but for death and how Jesus becomes our husband. It's just incredible stuff. I'm excited about that. And then, of course, you know, I'm a reformed kind of Calvinist theologian, so I can't wait for chapters eight chapters nine, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have a blast with all of that, you know. And Romans 8, we've preached Romans 8 or Romans 9 at funerals. I mean, I just can't wait for that stuff. I'm so excited about that, I can't believe the week 13,. Romans 7, I can't preach it for two weeks. I'm ready to go now.
Speaker 1:I hear you, and Romans 8 is so important to the gospel. I mean, I think people when they understand Romans 8, it changes everything for a lot of people.
Speaker 2:It changed it for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm excited, I'm preaching, so I'm staying in series for Easter. I always debate whether to or whether not to.
Speaker 2:Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I'm doing Romans 3.25 that talks about and answering the question for the people why did Jesus have to die? Like why is that? Because I mean people ask that Like, why was this God's plan right? And it's personal for me not to dive into this part of the story, but the church I was a part of before when everything went south theologically there. One of the things that went south was the pastor's view on atonement, why Jesus had to die Like he changed his whole philosophy on that and it blew my mind. There's so many holes in what he believes now that it shocked me. I'm going to actually spend a lot of time on Easter morning talking about atonement theories and why we believe in substitutionary atonement and why that's such a big deal for you in the gospel.
Speaker 2:Well, you can't preach through Romans or read Romans and not understand that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think you can, but every now and then somebody surprises me Well if you try to do that, you're not preaching through verse by verse. Yeah, so last question for you today Is there anything you would like to say to someone listening? This podcast is in 17 countries at the moment. It's all across the world. People are listening. Why they're listening to me? I have no clue, but they're listening right To someone who might be struggling with the weight of the message in Romans.
Speaker 2:So I think the most important thing, if you're listening to a series on Romans or you're reading Romans and you're struggling with the message that's early on, especially in Romans, just remember what Paul is doing is he's explaining just how much we need grace, but also how powerful grace is that, even with all of that stuff that's hard and difficult to hear, even with all of that, you have these, but now moments, and that's what we challenge our people. Look for your but now moment, but now grace, but now mercy, but now love, but now forgiveness. So, yeah, all that stuff is hard, but there's a but now moment coming, and that's what Romans is so great at. It's like this big setup thing. He's like a lawyer. He's saying you know, there's this guilt and it's undeniable, and all these things, but now comes grace, and I just I think that that would be the thing that I would say for me. So what are you looking forward to? Mostly?
Speaker 1:I think I'm looking forward honestly to how much Romans is going to change me. You personally? I personally believe that Every time I read the gospel I feel more overwhelmed by God. I tell people all the time, the more I know God, the more I realize how much I don't know about God right, like he's bigger than I can ever imagine. And so these last two years of preaching whether it was the Psalm series, the John series or diving into Romans I'm just excited about how much I'm going to grow in the next 30 weeks in this series, excited about my people growing as well in the church, grabbing onto the gospel. But I feel like if I don't get excited about myself and don't allow it to change me it's what you said earlier Oftentimes we're putting a picture of somebody that we hope hears the message this weekend, we were joking.
Speaker 2:We never do that people, ever. It never happens.
Speaker 1:But with Romans. I'm kind of that picture right, like what is this going to do to me this weekend, and so I'm excited about that. But I really am excited about Easter diving into Romans 3. You've done chapter 3 already.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm writing 7, second half of 7. So first half of 7 is done. Second half of 7 is what I'm writing now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'll be two or three more weeks. I'll be mid chapter 3. I mean, I'm actually doing three weeks on that chapter.
Speaker 2:So there's no chance you're going to catch up that I can glean stuff from you. This is all one way right. It's a one-way relationship.
Speaker 1:Joe. I told him early on. I was like I'm glad you're ahead of me, I can just listen to your messages. Hey Joe, if people want to connect with you, if they want to buy your books, if they want to listen to your sermons, how can they find you?
Speaker 2:Gracelifesrqcom. Books are on Amazon, Joseph Davis. I have an author's page there. Author's page on Facebook. Joseph Davis. We're on YouTube, Gracelife Sarasota, and so those are our venues, kind of the same that everyone else has, but I'm easy to find.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if they're local here in Sarasota looking for a church, what time are your services?
Speaker 2:We have a 9 am service. That we added in January because we've been growing. It's been exciting, right, that's been exciting. 9 am and then 1030. Okay and yeah, so those are our services on Lockwood Ridge, 17th Street and Lockwood Ridge.
Speaker 1:And then we did touch on recovery, so we've got recovery here on Sunday nights. Touch on recovery, so we've got recovery here on Sunday nights, celebrate recovery at seven o'clock at South Shore and then at Grace Life.
Speaker 2:you do, we Grace Life recovery, monday nights at seven o'clock. We also have recovery church. That's on Tuesday nights at seven. Spirit of Recovery Wednesday nights at seven. Grace House has their weekly meeting at our church. Also, project Exodus will be having their weekly meetings at our church. That's awesome. Then we have a women's only group that meets on Friday nights at 7. And then there is a basic text group on Saturday nights at 8. So you can see we are in the trenches. That's what God has called us to be for our church, and I wouldn't want to have it any other way.
Speaker 1:No, I love it. Joe, I appreciate you making time for this today and being here with me and excited about walking through Romans with you.
Speaker 2:I'm excited. Love you, man. Thank you, you as well.